Unrestored class

[RS 500 Registrar]

Originally Posted by Dave Easton

pmsl @ not on the committee paul !!!!!!!!!!!

as far as i am concerned i left the committee at the end of the agm weekend and as we are good friends i am surprised at that comment!

i was not against the class at all paul, it was against the way it was bulled up
in the first place then no one else came to fight for it, you demanded 3 classes or none at all which i thought was wrong,

we cant agree all the time

concourse has enough classes with only 1 car in without adding anymore

Lol at your reply about the committee , i"m only trying to get you to bite , i thought you knew me well , lol

speak soon mate , Ill give you a bell to catch up

[Scott M9 COS]

Concours is a dieing breed and has been for years. RS cars in the condition required for showing are now way out of the league of the ordinary show going person and are slowly becoming rich men's toys only that will never see daylight let alone a wet field on a Sunday! RS values have increased too high too quickly and the show season has suffered as a result as people don't or won't drive their pride and joy as they're scared to!! Gone are the days of full classes and healthy competition between friends etc. I used to enjoy showing my car against Ian Hammond and Alan Patterson back in the day but that was when people weren't chucking there teddy's when getting 2nd place etc. If a car was better than mine, it was better....simple. And before anyone starts, that's not a dig at anyone. Concours NEEDS to be a COMPETITION for it to work and for it to survive. Needs a big shakeup to stop having single car classes as its a drain of resources for both the club and the competitor. All in my opinion of course.

Scott Emmerson, Retired concourse competitor. LOL

[Kevin]

Very true scott
I,m still battling away lol.

[RS 500 Registrar]

Scott

I agree 100% , thats why i THOUGHT the unrestored class was a winner

It gave a class for those who have good untouched cars that wernt prepared to restore a car just to enter concourse , hence not having to spend thousands just to enter and i thought there were plenty of the owners who wanted just that

People now dont want to build concourse cars because the standard is way to high and to build a winning car costs tens of thousands , and its this IMO that is putting proplr off concourse

I THOUGHT that a class for unrestored cars was a sure winner because like me there are plenty of owners who will not restore a car as it actually devalues it and yet i cant complete in concourse because its judged completly wrong

How can a car thats completly blinged win a untouched car in a concourse competition , lol it shouldnt but does

My thoughts were best of both worlds

anyway we will see in 2013 if its ever going to get of the ground or be scrapped

[Scott M9 COS]

Scrap the lot and track them instead!

[Peter 433]

Originally Posted by Scott M9 COS

Concours is a dieing breed and has been for years. RS cars in the condition required for showing are now way out of the league of the ordinary show going person and are slowly becoming rich men's toys only that will never see daylight let alone a wet field on a Sunday! RS values have increased too high too quickly and the show season has suffered as a result as people don't or won't drive their pride and joy as they're scared to!! Gone are the days of full classes and healthy competition between friends etc. I used to enjoy showing my car against Ian Hammond and Alan Patterson back in the day but that was when people weren't chucking there teddy's when getting 2nd place etc. If a car was better than mine, it was better....simple. And before anyone starts, that's not a dig at anyone. Concours NEEDS to be a COMPETITION for it to work and for it to survive. Needs a big shakeup to stop having single car classes as its a drain of resources for both the club and the competitor. All in my opinion of course.

Scott Emmerson, Retired concourse competitor. LOL

Spot on scott.

[Peter 433]

Originally Posted by RS 500 Registrar

Scott

I agree 100% , thats why i THOUGHT the unrestored class was a winner

It gave a class for those who have good untouched cars that wernt prepared to restore a car just to enter concourse , hence not having to spend thousands just to enter and i thought there were plenty of the owners who wanted just that

People now dont want to build concourse cars because the standard is way to high and to build a winning car costs tens of thousands , and its this IMO that is putting proplr off concourse

I THOUGHT that a class for unrestored cars was a sure winner because like me there are plenty of owners who will not restore a car as it actually devalues it and yet i cant complete in concourse because its judged completly wrong

How can a car thats completly blinged win a untouched car in a concourse competition , lol it shouldnt but does

My thoughts were best of both worlds

anyway we will see in 2013 if its ever going to get of the ground or be scrapped

Paul

I might be a prime example of the unrestored class, I would love to have my car judged but on previous experience I would miss out to a car with a nut and bolt restore. The judges just then see a "brand" new car not one that has been lovingly looked after for the last 25 years plus!

I have thought about taking the car apart to do this, but I think it would then lose it's identity, so I won't.

Peter

[Dave Easton]

get it shown then peter !

[punton.bhp]

Originally Posted by Scott M9 COS

Scrap the lot and track them instead!

:c lap::cla p: :c lap::cla p: :c lap::cla p:

PS I THINK WE NEW A RING NOT A TRACK SO SOME OF US CAN GET THE BOXING GLOVES OUT PMSL DING DING ROUND ONE

[Kevin]

whose ding ding.............................................. .

[RS 500 Registrar]

Pete

your 500 is a perfect car for the class mate

Try it you might just enjoy yourself

[Kevin]

As they say
dont KNOCK it until you,ve tried it

[Minshy]

i tried to change in 2005 by scrapping the log book scheme and leaving up to the local groups to organise their own competition, trophies with the backing of main club but it was rejected.
I recognised the downfall and the eliteism (spelling) creeping in then, 7 years down the line it is far worse than what it was then.
the standard of the cars is beyond excellent, peeps have tried to change for the better but in in reality have made it worse, back in 2000 there was over 200 logbooks issued and in 2005 it was down to still a healthy 180.
I think the cost of the log book is a factor, nowadays i believe they are in excess of £20.00, back in early 2000 it was a couple of quid, this in my opinion also adds to elitism of the concours scene within the RSOC.
I take my hat off to these guys who do this year in and year out, i did it for 3 years and that was enough.
Alan does a cracking job in travelling to each show and sorting the judging out etc. and has a difficult job trying to keep this going and everyone happy
Scott is quite right is it dying but mainly due to the standard of the cars and people not wanting to spend a vast amount of money to bring their cars up to the standard required to compete.
This gets debated every year and things are changed but the numbers still are not increasing.
I know there are many reasons why numbers are down probably too many to mention and there will be many different opinions on the subject.
I don't know what the answer is if indeed there is one but there will come a time where we will have to take a long hard look on how we handle this for the good of the club and its members.

hugs and kisses to all

Steve

[Kevin]

Nice words steve,
You say for the good of the club...........
Lets remember the concourse scene is only a small
part of the club.
The same issues apply to the track days.
So lets not say concourse is dieing .We know it possinbly
needs new ideas .
BUT SO DO A LOT OF OTHER ASPECTS OF THE CLUB

[RS 500 Registrar]

The main reason IMO concourse is dying is simply the standard is way to high and its now almost finacialy impossible to build a winning concourse car unless your a very wealthy person

we need cocncours 100% but we need to make it easier to compete

[billiam]

think your right paul.

[Minshy]

Kevin
You are correct there are elements within this club that are in desperate need for modernisation, the impact of other forum based clubs on membership of the RSOC cannot be ignored.
As I stated people have tried new ideas since but all it has done is reduce numbers, I have lost count of the times the concours meeting after the AGM has turned into a bun fight with people arguing about how the rules adapted to suit themselves. Maybe the time has come for the committee to take the lead and decide how the competition is going to run and the concours meeting is for information only.
Paul you are right in many ways, I have judged cars and spoke to the owners about how to improve the car, but how can you tell someone to spend £1000's of pounds on a car to try improve it and they still come second!
I have always said to enjoy the car and if you are happy with it why spend the money.
Showing has definitely become more competitive and beyond most people who are partly embarrassed putting their car on the show ground against some truly wonderful motors, this we have to change somehow.
I think maybe a reintroduction of another class where all class winners have to go for a period of time after winning to give someone else a chance the following year, I tried this at national day a few times.

[MARC MCCUBBIN]

Steve you try'd at nat day 2005 when I entered it but many didn't was also involved in the expert class when it was 1st launched in 2008 my personal view is if we went bk to each having ther own class that would encourage more people bk out a don't think they like the condensed classes. Only my thoughts.

Cheers marc

[Kevin]

I did put forward the post 81 class agin for this yr.
As if it hadnt been introduced i certainly wouldnt
of shown .As i would of been against New cars
so how can that work.
As it turned out there were i believe at most shows 4 or more in my class.

I introduced a novice class atr ford fair last year.
And i admit this year it was wrong as there were 12 plate cars against
30 yr old cars.
So car categories have to be looked into.
If you start lumping cars in together then imo
the numbers will dwindle dramatically.
Yes i won my class
Where do i go from there ??????
Cant go into standard as my car certainly isnt good enough
and its not modified,
SO where do i go next year. Back into post 81 non cosworth class ??
I enjoy the concourse scene and will when possible enter into it.
We certainly are not an elitest group ,were a friendly bunch
who all get on with each other.
The committee CANT take the decision making away from the
voting concoursers at the agm meet.
That would cause grief.
Every club is having attendance problems whether its a static show
or thack event.
I also think £20 is a fair price for the log book scheme.
Remember the trophys are better, we also get t shirts
and alan put a ;lot of time into pictures and certificates
for all.
That never happened previously.
The decision making cannot be taken away from the competitors.
A few years ago i remember NON concoursers voting on concourse
ideas , what a joke that was.

[Minshy]

It is elitised purely by the standard of the cars not the people who take part, didn't make myself clear.

I honestly believe that ideas need to come from outside the box so to speak, because rightly or wrongly leaving it to the competitors from the previous year has done nothing but to reduce numbers not increase them, this also can lead to the feeling of elitesm. A bit like you running a competition and making the rules to suit certain competitors(altered this from previous as it didn't read right). This is why I stated it may be time for the committee or someone within to take the lead. There cannot be any grief as the rules would be concrete and not subject to the nonsense that sometimes takes place at these meetings,
These are just ideas of mine like everyone else who thinks they have the answer.
The money raised from log books this year didn't even cover costs in fact it cost the club quite a bit, I know it isn't all about cost but we have to consider all aspects when we commit to expenditure
Marc,
I Know what you are saying but it does give someone else a chance of winning.

[Kevin]

Costs .....................
W hat we talking here?????

trophies ............
Printing log books .............
please add to list.............

[Paul Cox]

"Petrol" .................... (yeah - what ever !!!)

[WILL 74]

IMO,the ''elitism'' has been allowed,and probably encouraged over many years.I can remember when i was a club member back in 1990,the concours scene was thriving,but the standards were being set by people who decided to take a factory fresh car apart,then rebuild it to a better standard than the factory achieved,in an attempt to increase the chances of winning.A good friend of mine left the club in 1991,sold his RSi as he just couldn't compete with a completely restored 'new car'.Anyone can clean a freshly painted/restored car,but what about keeping a 25/30/40 year old car to original standard.Over restored cars should have been marked down even back then,but they weren't,we now have cars with painted/powder coated parts that were never finished like this from the factory,exterior paint jobs on 1970's and 1980's cars that have been finished in clear,when they were single stage from the factory,madness IMO.For what it's worth,i still believe Paul Cox had the right idea with the non RS Ford Class proposal,but we know what happened to that.

[sortedcossie]

Originally Posted by RS 500 Registrar

The main reason IMO concourse is dying is simply the standard is way to high and its now almost finacialy impossible to build a winning concourse car unless your a very wealthy person

we need cocncours 100% but we need to make it easier to compete

Totally agree.

[0630154]

Oh stop all your winging , it's to hard , it's to wet , it's too far away , it's on a Sunday , it's on grass . It's been like this for the past 20 years . So if you have a car that is the best in your class that's a problem for some people . Over the past 20 years the cars have been getting better year on year, there is always going to be a top car in every class . But it is mighty hard work keeping them like this , just ask a member , there is hard work going on long into the night to get them to what you see. The way I see things you better watch out as you might just spoil it for all with the continued bitching about how this is in fair and this is not right . What would happen if hardly a car came out to shows ? It would be game over , as lets be very clear on this , you only go to shows to see cars . Fact.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 0630154

Oh stop all your winging , it's to hard , it's to wet , it's too far away , it's on a Sunday , it's on grass . It's been like this for the past 20 years . So if you have a car that is the best in your class that's a problem for some people . Over the past 20 years the cars have been getting better year on year, there is always going to be a top car in every class . But it is mighty hard work keeping them like this , just ask a member , there is hard work going on long into the night to get them to what you see. The way I see things you better watch out as you might just spoil it for all with the continued bitching about how this is in fair and this is not right . What would happen if hardly a car came out to shows ? It would be game over , as lets be very clear on this , you only go to shows to see cars . Fact.

Happy days
Well said , that sums up what its about.

[Dave Easton]

Originally Posted by 0630154

Oh stop all your winging , it's to hard , it's to wet , it's too far away , it's on a Sunday , it's on grass . It's been like this for the past 20 years . So if you have a car that is the best in your class that's a problem for some people . Over the past 20 years the cars have been getting better year on year, there is always going to be a top car in every class . But it is mighty hard work keeping them like this , just ask a member , there is hard work going on long into the night to get them to what you see. The way I see things you better watch out as you might just spoil it for all with the continued bitching about how this is in fair and this is not right . What would happen if hardly a car came out to shows ? It would be game over , as lets be very clear on this , you only go to shows to see cars . Fact.

i agree

[Kevin]

Show me a car club that isnt havin problems.